SV UU Metagame Discussion - Teal Mask Edition

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mossy Sandwich

Gunning for the top
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
UUPL Champion
I don't feel like ninetales dropping is the biggest deal with these drops, it's pretty nice for HO for sure, but it's not like Espeon or Grimmsnarl were struggling to set those up. No, the bigger issue is two extremely important defensive pieces being gone. And they happen to be decent stopgaps to a specific mon. I think it's gonna be time to catch those hands. :iron hands:
 
I don't feel like ninetales dropping is the biggest deal with these drops, it's pretty nice for HO for sure, but it's not like Espeon or Grimmsnarl were struggling to set those up. No, the bigger issue is two extremely important defensive pieces being gone. And they happen to be decent stopgaps to a specific mon. I think it's gonna be time to catch those hands. :iron hands:
I actually think Quaquaval becomes broken again. (Not that it wasn't already unhealthy to some degree even with Amoonguss and Dirge in the tier)
 
alright time to bribe tier leaders
how much do you need to quickban hands and a9t
seriously why is screens such a big issue in lower tiers
screens ho has been a problem even before tier shifts and everyone have to use it now
 

ThatOneApple

A Bit Fruity
is a Community Contributor
This is not going to be pleasant, losing :skeledirge: and gaining :ninetales-alola: was one of the worst things that couldve happened imo

:Iron Hands:
This guy will probably be stupid again due to not being locked into tera fire for dirge, allowing it to do all the crazy stupid shit it pulled way back in pre home with a load of tera options and set mixups like sub, sure probably not to the same degree but still not a pleasant degree.

:Quaquaval:
Losing amoon means this guy can just do what it did prior to the dlc, running stab knock and sd and kill people. Losing dirge just makes its life easier bc it doesnt have an unaware mon that can eat a hit and burn it. I dont think its on the same level as hands at all but i dont think its gonna be pleasant to work around (maybe now is a good time to try out cm :slowbro:, that guy looks fun)

I understand that :sinistcha: can check both of these guys, but I havent been liking it recently due to :tornadus-therian: and :hydreigon:, alongside the rising presence of :moltres-galar:, speaking of which, gmolt could also be a bit wacky without dirge, im less worried about it but im watching it
 
Time to summarize my thoughts
- :Skeledirge: and :Amoonguss: rising is huge. Both were A-Tier mons who added good defensive value to teams. Skeledirge's rise is more impactful though, as UU lost its only Unaware mon that was decently splashable on teams (sorry Clodsire). Which leads me to my next point...

- :Iron Hands: This mon is most likely busted again. No longer being forced to run Tera Fire or have some sort of coverage for Skeledirge frees it up so much.

- :Ninetales-Alola: Veil HO is back! It chose the perfect time to drop, and it will be interesting to see what the most optimal veil HO team is.

- :Cresselia: , :Quaquaval: Two mons that also appreciate dirge's rise. Quaquaval in particular is no longer pressured to run brave bird for amoong, freeing up a moveslot for something like Knock Off to hit Slowbro/Slowking + Sinistcha. Cresselia hated having to deal with Skeledirge in the format, but now that its gone, it will definitely have more chances to set up than before (I wonder if the same can be said for some :Enamorus-Therian: sets as well).

Overall, crazy shifts though
 
As of yesterday Scarlet and Violet UnderUsed is 1 year old!


What have been some of your favorite experiences with the tier so far?
 
Those shifts might be the shittiest shifts we got in all SV UU history. We had a pretty balanced and fair tier (even tho some might say that Tornadus-T was too much) and now tier is ass. HO was already pretty great and dominant but the rise of both Skeledirge and Amoonguss opened doors for many scary threats to be even more dominant. Worst part of this you may ask ? HO also received a major buff aka Ninetales-A which allows Veil HO to be a thing. Ladder is currently filled by those teams and it's pretty easy to understand why since you just have to put Ninetales-A, eventually add a Entry Hazards suicide lead like Iron Treads or Sandy Shocks and fill the rest of the team with either 4 or 5 setup sweepers. The issue is that Skeledirge was keeping in check a shit ton of them naturally and now they're free to roam. I'm not quite sure what we can actually do right now, but I think quite a few Pokémon are problematic right now or at least pretty unhealthy/oppressive for the sanity of the tier..


Cresselia and Enamorus-T are probably the least problematic threats right now because while they're insanely bulky under Veil, they do lack raw power and take a few turns to be really oppressive which is a lot in a heavy HO oriented metagame, there are threats which can just pummel threw them by being able to setup stronger and faster than them. Cresselia also doens't appreciate Snow since it cuts in half its recovery from Moonlight. However, they're still dangerous and can raze some teams.


Iron Hands was banned a few times in SV UU history and I must admit I do believe it's gonna take the banhammer once again. With Skeledirge gone and a brand new Veil support, Iron Hands can muscle threw so many teams thanks to its sheer power and bulk. It can trade vs basically whatever it wants and can replace Earthquake which was needed to dent Skeledirge for Ice Punch to nuke things such as Sinistcha. It's unhealthy af and I don't see a way of it to stay in the tier. It's just too good right now with its Booster Energy set.


Quaquaval is another Pokémon which loves those kind of metagame since it has great potential to snowball games effectively thanks to Swords Dance + Moxie + Aqua Step. While it's definitively not as oppressive as Iron Hands, it's still a really potent threat under Screens support. It also really like the rise of both Dirge and Guss. On the other hand, Bulk Up Okidogi is actually a pretty spicy pick I feel like thanks to its Bulk Up + 3 attacks set. It has great bulk, great typing but what I really like about this Pokémon is its access to Psychic Fangs which is imo a pretty insane filler right now with all those Veil Ho running around. For the record, Psychic Fangs has the same effect as Brick Break : it break Screens when it's uses, which is pretty great. It's also hit super effectively Iron Hands for good damages.



Iron Leaves was struggling to break threw Skeledirge so it's once again a Pokémon which loves this rise. Energy Booster (Speed) + Tera Electric Wild Charge is its best set for sure right now, it's pretty consistent and dangerous even tho it doesn't have the best speed tier (even at +1). In the same vibe, Scizor is a really great Pokémon in offensive oriented teams and the rise of Skeledirge is also a breath of fresh air for it.


I don't know how Moltres-Galar has been used so little last month. 2.7% for a Pokémon like that isn't normal but I guess ladder is ladder. Double Dance Goltres has always been an insane setup sweeper and it's still the same right now, even more with Veil support and Skeledirge gone. While Dirge wasn't the best check to it for sure ; Tera Fairy, Tera Dark or even Tera Water variants were pretty damn good into it, especially with a good amount of bulk on the special side. I feel like Goltres is really unhealthy right now and can find so many opportunities to setup under Screens and sweep teams.
 
Last edited:
Hyper Offense screens spam wooooo. Dirge leaving the tier would already enable these Mons a lot, now combine that with Among also leaving and Veil and you have yourself a mess.

1701648890723.png

The fattest fat mon to ever fat now gets even fatter under veil being able to shrug off nearly everything, SD once or twice and then heal it off with Drain Punch. It has a decent freedom in Tera Types now that Dirge is gone opening Flying or Ghost more. No Dirge also makes Earthquake a lot less necessary opening up the move slot to tech for whatever check it wants. Booster Attack OHKOs Sinischa after +2 with Ice Punch and is imo the best set. This mon usually takes 2 mons, at times can take on 3 or sometimes even 4 mons if it gets going and the opponent doesn't have a good answer. It's very dumb and probably deserving of UUBL for the third time.

1701649540669.png

Leaves finally got to UU after falling to RUBL and being there forever :D. So the mon was already pretty good prior to shifts and now in Dirgeless World is even better because it just struggled with it severely. I tried Booster Attack SD/Trail Blaze/CC/Psy Blade but I didn't like it. It struggles being immiediately threatning despite higher attack due to speed tier and wanting two turns to set up. Booster Speed SD/Wild Charge/CC/Psy Blade felt much better being able to come in things like +1 Duck or Torn and needing only 1 turn to really start going. Iron Leaves feels very good but not ban worthy.

1701650105801.png

Scizor somehow feels both meta and anti-meta at the same time. It slots very nicely into Veil teams with SD Life Orb and Priority being able to sweep and win end games against opposing sweepers. At the same time it can also lead against Veil threatning OHKO on Tales before the Veil goes up and also threaten priority on sweepers especially those who use Close Combat and lower their defences. It is a mon whos role in the metagame I find pretty interesting.

1701650625079.png

Treads potentially outspeed Tales with Booster Energy and OHKO's with Iron Head. It means dropping both Bloon/Lefties and one of the move slots on just Anti-Tales messures but at least it can threaten it.

1701650933501.png

This mon feels overlooked rn to me. With Among and Mola gone there are basically no Rocky Helmet users in the tier anymore. Our Steels are fake as Treads gets 2HKO'd by it at +1 while 3HKO'ing back if it's under Veil. Scizor also gets 2HKO'd and Mausehold can Tera Fire to resist Bullet Punch. Hell even Iron Hands needs a decent physical bulk investement to get out of +1 PB range. Obviously assuming no veil of their own. Population Bomb is an insane move and so is Tidy Up, access to Encore means it can take advantage of opposing sweepers.
 
I don't feel like ninetales dropping is the biggest deal with these drops, it's pretty nice for HO for sure, but it's not like Espeon or Grimmsnarl were struggling to set those up. No, the bigger issue is two extremely important defensive pieces being gone. And they happen to be decent stopgaps to a specific mon. I think it's gonna be time to catch those hands. :iron hands:
FWIW, being able to put up both reflect and light screen in one turn is a pretty nice niche, and the generational shift from Hail to Snow is also huge. Alotales is no longer chipping its team, and the Defense boost to Ice Types helps significantly improve the offense for defense calculus of Ice as a tera type, and things get especially nutty with a 'mon that can boost it's defense. Snow and Screens both operate on raw multipliers and not "stages". So, a +1 Def Ice Type under Veil in the Snow has a functional defense ~14% higher than if they were +6.

Tera Ice Iron Hands put up work for me on Veil teams in OU back when DLC1 had just dropped, and it's still obscene here, but I might have to give Tera Ice BU Ursaluna a shot for the lulz:

200+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Close Combat vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Ice Ursaluna in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 141-166 (30.3 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

Fusion Flare

i have hired this cat to stare at you
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
As of yesterday Scarlet and Violet UnderUsed is 1 year old!


What have been some of your favorite experiences with the tier so far?
There’s this one memory early in the gen where I was battling Pif.

I had a Lycanroc-D out and went for SD as an Alomomola came in. Then, to my surprise, I one-shot it with a Tera Fighting CC. This put me on such a high that i wasn’t even bothered by me losing from getting outplayed by Tera Ghost Blissey after Flame Body Talonflame burned all my physical mons
 
Does anyone think mienshao is rlly good rn or is it just me being delusional
Choice scarf might be good since it’s speed tier allows it to revenge kill sandy shocks and treads, but it feels like a budget tornadus - T on regenerator sets, and reckless sets will probably get worn down against stall/balance, unless mienshao is using choice band so it can be useless against rain and veil ho.

I don’t have any experience with it tho so this may be completely wrong in practice
 

spell

of the void
is a Community Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
OMPL Champion
Iron Hands has been broken since DLC first dropped and losing some of the most consistent counterplay defensively speaking just means its only a matter of time before this goes. No comment here really, an easy 5.

Moltres on the other hand I don't see as being on the same level of broken as Hands but removing it too wouldn't cause much harm since this meta is going to be temporary anyway and the next few months will be fucked up regardless for the tier so being trigger happy with the bans (can also see Leaves, Quaquaval and maybe Scizor on the table too for this reason) would be healthy for the tier imo.
 
Last edited:

ThatOneApple

A Bit Fruity
is a Community Contributor
:Iron hands: - 5
Was already iffy as hell about this guy before the rises, but without dirge and amoongus here to fend it off it just owns everything. The things we have to check it now are sinistcha, who doesnt feel very good rn and is easily dispatched by Hands's buddy gmolt on HO, or hydrei/torn on fatter structures, as well as sandy shocks mamo and hoopa, none of which are easy to fit on a team and dont really switch in. There are other options that technically exist like scream tail, but that mon is uh.... bad. Aurora Veil makes this thing straight up unkillable too, ive seen calcs of it taking less than half from +1 eqs from mence and tera water rain boosted floatzel wave crash with the veil up, and combined with drain punch recovery it can just cleave through teams. Overall just a negative presence both in the builder and in battles, give him the 3 for 3.

:Moltres-Galar: - 3
This is the kind of mon i wouldnt mind staying or leaving, its just kind of an HO mon and that pmuch it so its not like it leaving has much in term of negative effects. As for whether or not I think its busted, ehhhh im kinda half and half on it. On the one hand its a bit annoying when building when you have to consider its bulk paired with double dance shenanigans, but on the other hand its usually not too bad to deal with in battles. Idk, id be fine whether it stays or goes for now.
 
Choice scarf might be good since it’s speed tier allows it to revenge kill sandy shocks and treads, but it feels like a budget tornadus - T on regenerator sets, and reckless sets will probably get worn down against stall/balance, unless mienshao is using choice band so it can be useless against rain and veil ho.

I don’t have any experience with it tho so this may be completely wrong in practice
Theres like no stall in uu as far as I can tell, dk about balance. Played a bit with band sets using reckless and it can threaten a lot of stuff out and can ohko a bunch of neutral targets and live a hit(Shocks, scizor, conk, infernape, g-moltres, quaquaval, kleavor, jirachi, gastrodon, hands with a little chip). Ghosts and psychics (sinistcha, leaves, gengar, slowking) also dont want to switch in to u turn or knock off. Only hard checks imo are moltres and g-weezing but Im probably extremely biased. From my experience its great at being fast wallbreaker especially with dirge and amoongus gone.
 

Melt Gibson

lights on me like i'm filming a movie scene
is a Pre-Contributor
:Iron Hands:
To no surprise, I put Iron Hands as a 5 on the survey. I've been Hands' #1 enemy since day one, and this is easily the strongest it's been, arguably even worse than pre-HOME and DLC. I'm not even sure what I can say here that hasn't already been said by multiple others in this thread, losing Amoonguss and Skeledirge gave it all the room it needed to just start muscling through teams, and Veil support is the icing on the cake to its already comical bulk. I've seen it take less than half from a Tera Water Floatzel's Wave Crash in rain, a +1 Salamence Earthquake, and much, much more. The common thread between all of these: it shouldn't fucking do that. And, even if you do manage to deal significant damage to it, it doesn't really matter, because this asshole loan shark will immediately Drain Punch you and take back all of that HP with interest. I genuinely do not see an overlap in metas where we don't ban Iron Hands and metas where UU is playable until we get some sort of realistic defensive check like Amoonguss or Skeledirge back.

:moltres-galar:
Probably bad for the tier as well, but I'm willing to give it more time? I put this down as a 3, mostly because of the lack of recovery and the relative inconsistency of Hurricane as an option, alongside the much lower bulk compared to other HO staples like Hands or even Quaquaval. I wouldn't be upset to see it go, it's not like it brings anything of actual value to the tier, but I'm definitely not nearly as pressed about it compared to things like Hands, Alolan Ninetales, and even Quaquaval or Iron Leaves.

:ninetales-alola:
The absolute worst drop we could have gotten LOL, the only thing stopping Screens HO from being insane was the fact that there was never really a good screens setter, and now that they have it the tier is pretty much ruined. I think a Veil or Light Clay ban would be cool even if we're probably not getting it, seeing as HO has plenty of other sweepers ready and willing to take the place of Hands, but I do understand that's not something we can readily quantify until we see it and Hands is ridiculous regardless of Veil's influence. I don't think this provides much though with the exception of a Freeze-Dry user and a fast Encore.

:maushold:
Much, much better now that Amoonguss and Skeledirge are gone. Tidy Up is a surprisingly nice removal option on offense builds, and now that there are no real Rocky Helmet users aside from the odd Clodsire, PopBomb is super free into any team not carrying a Sinistcha. Fast Encore is, as always, also very good, especially on HO squads that need to create free turns to set up. Very fun little self-contained mon that's a good team player as well.

:quaquaval:
Doesn't have to run Brave Bird anymore and still starts dancing and goes fucking turbo after it gets a kill or two, exceptionally good cleaner that's very hard to check at the moment between its already acceptable bulk, good breakers available to pair it with, and Veil giving it extra leg room to live stray hits. Definitely very comparable to how it was pre-DLC, if not a smidge less broken.

TL:DR this meta is unplayable and it's Hands' fault and to a lesser extent Veil HO as a structure, please ban Hands thanks
 
1702000148392.png


Ah yes.. rn it sits in B- but with the rise of both amoonguss and dirge I believe this mon is in a much better spot and yet no one is mentioning it. Without needing tera ghost you can run a more suitable tera like rock for moltres was something i tested, or you can run poison to try to beat dogi 1v1 esp if you get a victory dance and they lost their leftovers early.

It feels very overlooked and a lot of people just glossed over. Since even tho okidogi walls it to the moon and back (i ran tera flying once it was funny) it has to be pretty healthy to continue to check it

+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Okidogi: 168-198 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

At +1 you are doing a great chunk of its hp and this means late game you can come in, grab a victory dance, maybe grab a 2nd one depending on the situation and use your tera or your raw power to break through okidogi anyway, its not like okidogi is a perfect counter who stays healthy throughout a game.

It is also a great late game sweeper thanks to its bulk via victory dance and ability to force out many pokemon or use them as setup fother
 
I think that Quaquaval should have been an option on the survey as well, as while Quaquaval isn't as broken as hands, its damn near just as broken and its still way too broken for the tier without Skeledirge and Amoonguss here to force it to tera or switch, and it was still questionable to how healthy it was down here even when it wasn't quickban worthy like it is now or at the beginning of DLC1 with its Volcarona esque matchup fishing even when it had very solid checks like Dirge, Chesnaught and Amoonguss in the tier all at different points.

All I have to say is if the council is voting on Hands, Quaquaval should be included on the same voting slate, as both it and Hands are definitely both quickban worthy and should definitely get the boot, as both Quaquaval and Hands have to go again.



Also I gave goltres a 4, as while it probably isn't a healthy pokemon down here, its moreso suspect territory in my eyes as while its not healthy, it isn't as dumb as Quaquaval and Hands are

Don't know why the council didn't opt to include Quaquaval considering its most consistent answers left though, should definitely get voted on regardless
 

Why Aroura Veil is problematic :sm/ninetales-alola:

For the past 9 days, Aroura Veil has been dominating the SV UU ladder, which is most likely unsurprising if you've played any SV UU this month. Generally the team style is either Alolatales, one suicude hazard lead, and four set up sweepers, or Alolatales, and five set up sweepers, but at higher levels there is more variety with these team compositions. I will now go over why veil teams are genuinely problematic and not just a team style that can bully low to mid ladder.

Quick side note, while Iron Hands and Galarian Moltres are the biggest veil abusers, I will not be discussing this outside of this brief mention since they are likely to get quick banned soon, and they aren't a part of my main issue with veil teams.

The main issue I have with Aroura Veil is how it affects a tier when it is a dominant strategy. It will usually become very overcentralizing when given a good veil setter and good veil abusers. This results in a majority of teams just being some variant of a veil team, and the rest are usually centered around trying to beat veil, which leads to a very poor player experience, as well as an even worse builder experience. A team style narrowing down team options is already a big enough problems, but this problem is made even worse due to how veil teams operate. As mentioned earlier, the average veil teams use one veil setter alongside about four set up sweepers, and veil makes these set up sweepers a lot more dangerous thanks to giving them more opportunities to set up easily, and much harder to revenge kill.
Here's an example for how bad this can get;

252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Salamence with an ally's Aurora Veil: 150-176 (45.3 - 53.1%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Salamence with an ally's Aurora Veil: 226-268 (68.2 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While Salamence would probably not be at the HP range to survive life orb Mamoswine ice shard due to stealth rock, the fact that it can live it at all without even using tera is concerning.

One argument I have heard tossed around regarding veil is that the abusers should be banned and not veil itself. While I definitely agree that there are some veil abusers that are broken even outside of veil, I think there is a certain point where the problem just becomes veil pushing perfectly fine pokemon over the edge, which is where I take issue with veil as a mechanic. Aroura Veil is incredibly easy to set up and abuse, to the degree where it borders on being uncompetitive. Unlike other variants of HO like weather and terrain, veil is far from a matchup fish, and can be pretty consistent, which leads to it being much more easy to spam. A gameplay style centered around taking away a majority of the risk of Hyper Offense with minimal effort is fundementally uncompetitive, and I don't see much argument for keeping it around much longer.

Overall, Aroura Veil has already had a very bad impact on the tier while not even being in the tier for 10 days, and I don't see it getting much better past the quick ban phase either.
 
Hey I would like to bounce on your post Corporate Donkey. While it's true that Veil Offense are much more potent than other HO and somewhat more consistent (and even then I'm not convinced by that), I would like to highlight the fact that you made a critic without giving proper examples.
I think there is a certain point where the problem just becomes veil pushing perfectly fine pokemon over the edge, which is where I take issue with veil as a mechanic.
I would greatly appreciate if you could mentionned those Pokémon which are perfectly fine without Veil but suddenly are becoming too good or pushed over the edge solely due to Veil support. In my opinion, there is currently 2 Pokémon which are too good under Veil and those two are Iron Hands (obviously) and Moltres-Galar. Iron Hands is the biggest issue for sure and Moltres-Galar is also kinda iffy to deal with under Veil. However I struggle to find any Pokémon which would be too great under Veil and perfectly fine without this support. Other Pokémon such as Quaquaval, Salamence, Mamoswine, Scizor, Okidogi and so on can all mess over a lot of teams due to their setup moves and Tera shenanigans. Sure Aurora Veil support does make them better, but they are already great Pokémon which can be considered dangerous. There isn't any Pokémon which is becoming suddenly broken under Veil. Even Iron Hands is already an issue without Aurora Veil. This support just amplifies the issue. I personally don't think banning Aurora Veil will magically fix the tier and decreased the use of HO teams, they were already super common before shifts. People are just lazy to build right now because DLC is in less than a week and things gonna change a shit ton. Sure Veil is better than regular Screens setting enabled by things like Grimmsnarl, but banning Ninetales-Alola/Aurora Veil will not solve any issue, this will only lead people to use a different Screens setter. Even if those setters are worst than Ninetales-A, they will still work and lead to HO shenanigans. The issue right now, is the fact that we lost Skeledirge which was able to blanket check a shit ton of threats on the tier on its own. And we can even add the fact that we lost in two shifts many good staples for more defensive backbones and archetypes : Skeledirge, Alomomola and Amoonguss. This, is the real issue, not Aurora Veil.

Edit : I also think people are lazy and don't want to find ways to deal with Aurora Veil. It's also worth mentionning that regular HO with Suicide Lead Treads is as good as Veil right now imo.
 
Last edited:
Was writing a reply but I more or less agree with Mootmoot regarding veil. I have played against several different veil teams and I can say with confidence the only Pokemon that really 'breaks' the playstyle for me is Iron Hands because it does not die when combined with Drain + Booster + Tera. Outside of Veil Hands is just too much anyway.

For the past 9 days, Aroura Veil has been dominating the SV UU ladder, which is most likely unsurprising if you've played any SV UU this month.
While this is true, isn't it kinda unfair to not mention that it was the only new drop we got this month. To me, it makes sense that the tier would be littered with Veil HO for this reason alone. It's fairly easy to make a screen HO team and that in itself makes it easier to pick it up.

This results in a majority of teams just being some variant of a veil team, and the rest are usually centered around trying to beat veil, which leads to a very poor player experience, as well as an even worse builder experience. A team style narrowing down team options is already a big enough problems, but this problem is made even worse due to how veil teams operate.
Maybe I am in the slight minority but you don't have to go that far out of your way to have a good matchup into Veil HO. There are plenty of standard team-building options at your disposal to help keep these offensive threats in line. Now of course it affects the builder but what you are describing is also the same effect rain may as well have on the tier. It exists and the playstyle is fairly decent, the countermeasures I would argue are more limited. I think it also goes back to what Moute said above about our core defensive staples leaving creating more gaps to try and cover everything. Below are just some of the things I have seen/used and I don't feel like they require going out of your way to incorporate. Especially on the defensive end given we lost our best defensive glues.

Defensive
(Roar),
(Unaware),
(Taunt),
(Gas / Defog / Wisp),
(Clear Smog),
(Toxic + Foul Play),
(Weather)

Offensive
(Booster),
(Scarf + Trick),
,
(Tera + Encore),
(Strong + Priority + Psy Fangs),
(demon)

252 Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Salamence with an ally's Aurora Veil: 150-176 (45.3 - 53.1%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Salamence with an ally's Aurora Veil: 226-268 (68.2 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Kind of a nitpick but I don't see how these calcs support action on Veil. If you used Grimm and set Reflect it's the same thing. Yeah, Alola-Tales is a better Pokemon but you'd still get the same scenario. Hell if anything these specific examples are worse in Alola-Tale's case because if Snow is up you give them a Defense boost. It matters more in Mamoswine's case because you would eat +1 Outrage here.

I think Alola-Tales is perfectly fine in the tier and wouldn't support any action on it. I voted for a 4 or 5 on Iron Hands so I expect with the likely ban of it the playstyle will just get reeled in more. I gave Galartres a 1 because I don't think it's that insane or difficult to keep in check. Some variants can throw you off but for the most part, I feel like it's okay. It does provide some nice benefits when building for HO though so I disagree with comments calling it a cheese mon and banning it wouldn't have much effect. If it gets enough support then so be it.

:BW/Mew:
Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Psychic Fangs
- Close Combat
- Knock Off

Fun set I have been using on both veil and hazards HO. With Veil being pretty popular DD Mew is one of the few Psychic Fang users that benefits from running the move the most. Psychic Fangs being able to break screens is good for the mirror matchups and I feel like with the rise of Dirge it is easier to effectively run.


Will just make a small note that the bunny is cracked with no Amoonguss in the tier. Nothing switches into CB well especially when Knock punishes Volcanion, Empo, and Clod so much. AV is solid as a defensive glue for some offensive teams and BD does the same thing it always does.


I am proud of everyone who helped raise Iron Leaves to UU by usage. This Pokemon is also nuts with no Dirge in the tier also :wo:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top